Winnebago Fuse 23a vs Trend 23d comparison

People continue to ask about the Fuse and other motorhomes that are similar.  The market for Large Class B/Small Class C motorhomes seems to be very popular.  People ask about the Fuse and which other ones should they look at.  What are the plusses and minuses between the different motorhomes.

Two of the most similar motorhomes on the market are the Winnebago Fuse 23a and the Winnebago Trend 23d.   For fairness,  all images in this comparison are from Winnebago sales literature unless otherwise noted.  That should make all the images the same quality.

Fuse 23a Floorplan (Winnebago Ind)

Trend 23d Floorplan (Winnebago Ind)

The layouts of these two motorhomes are almost identical.  A large open area with the bathroom in the back and twin beds that make into a king sized bed.  A slide out up front with a love seat and kitchen.

Bathroom

• The bathrooms are almost identical
• The Fuse has a window in the bath and the Trend does not. 
• The Fuse has a pocket door and the Trend has a traditional swinging door
• The closet and drawers in the bathroom seem to be the same

Bedroom area

• The bedroom areas are slightly different
• There are drawers under both beds in the Fuse.  Only under 1 bed in the Trend
• There is a designated compartment for storing the tabletops on the Fuse.  Not so on the Trend.
• The cabinets slide open on the Fuse.  The cabinets lift up on the Trend.  
• The amount of overhead storage is about the same with the edge being given to the Fuse.  The entertainment center is located in the bedroom overhead cabinets  on the Trend and is up front on the Fuse.
• The beds are slightly longer on the Trend.  The Fuse has a pop up shelf to extend the drivers side bed to lengthen it.  It blocks the refrigerator when in use and requires the slide to be out.
• There is an accordion divider between the bedroom and the living space in the Trend.  There is a removable curtain that can be used to divide the space in the Fuse.

Living/kitchen areas

• The living and kitchen areas are about the same 
• The love seat is the same in both units.  They both can only fold out into a bed only when the slide out
• The microwave, refrigerator, sink and cooktop are the same.
• The storage in the kitchen is very similar.  The drawer layout is a little different with 2 deep drawers in the Trend and 1 shallow drawer and 1 deeper drawer in the Fuse.
• The front table can be used in the Trend with the slide in.  It can not be  used without an additional product in the Fuse when the slide is in.  The socket is blocked by the love seat.
• There is only 1 TV in the Trend. It is on an arm that can be positioned to be seen from the front or back.  The Fuse has 2 TVs, one in the in the front and one in the bedroom.

Cab area

• Both front seats in the Trend rotate.  Only the passenger seat in the Fuse does
• There is a TV over the Cab in the Fuse.  There is a window over the cab in the Trend
• There is more storage over the cab in the Fuse.  There is only storage along the sides over the cab in the Trend

Mechanics

• The Fuse is built on a Ford Transit Chassis.  The Trend on a Dodge (Fiat) Promaster chassis
• The Fuse is Diesel.  The Trend is Gasoline
• Side note - I had a friend who had a gasoline powered Class A that had fuel leak and then caught fire.  He swore to never buy another gasoline powered motorhome fearing for the safety of his family.  All of the motorhomes my Dad had were gasoline powered and he never worried about that though he never had a fire.
• The miles per gallon are about the same between the two units. Both are between 15-20mpg mostly impacted by speed.
• The Fuse has Dual Rear Wheels.  The Trend has single rear wheels
• The Fuse has an LP generator.  The Trend has a gasoline generator
• The Fuse has a traditional water heater.  The Trend has a on demand water heater
• Water and sewer capacities are about the same
• Both are low to the ground.  There is a concern about low ground clearance on both units
• The Fuse has three similar sized external storage compartments (23.1 cu ft).  The Trend has one external storage compartment (9.5cu ft).
• The Fuse can carry more weight.  3140 lbs vs 2150 lbs. using the GCWR - GWVR method 
• OCCC on the Fuse is 1500 lbs  on the Trend 1100 lbs
• The 2017 1/2 Fuse has a 5000 lbs hitch.  The Trend has a 2000 lbs hitch (which is the same as the 2017 Fuse)
• Both are the same length and width and height +- an inch or two.

Why did I buy a Fuse over a Trend?   

To be honest very few of these details came into account.  It came down to feel.   We liked the more open feel the Fuse has.  This is due to the pocket door and window in the bath.   This made it feel more open to us.   We also liked the sliding cabinet doors.  We worried that if the upward opening cabinet doors on the Trend popped open things would fall to the floor.   

The price on both units was about the same.  The Trend was about 5% less expensive than the Fuse. We thought either would have worked for us.

If you are interested in either of these motorhomes I recommend watching the sales videos that Lichtsinn RV produces.  They are very good walkthroughs of the units.  Winnebago has also put a virtual tour of each unit on their web site as well.

Feel free to add comments especially if you think it would be beneficial to someone making a decision between the two motorhomes.

Ford Transit Recall August 2016

For those folks who are following my blog but not following the "Fuse Owners" Facebook group I want to pass on a Ford recall notice.

Some of the early model 2017 Winnebago Fuse motorhomes are in a group of Ford Transits that need to have their fuel injection pumps replaced.  They will also inspect for damage to the fuel injectors and replace them if necessary.   The news.pickuptrucks.com site has a nice concise description of the recall.

You can check if your Fuse is covered by the recall by going to the Ford Owner Site and entering your VIN .

The parts to complete the recall should be available in October.  You may want to contact your local Ford dealer so you can get into the queue.  You should be receiving mail from Ford with more information if your Fuse is in the group that is impacted.

The Ford Press Release is here.

Below is the Ford recall from their site:

• Recall Date: AUG 22, 2016
• Recall Title: FUEL INJECTION PUMP REPLACEMENT 
• NHTSA Recall Number: AWAITING#
• Ford Recall Number: 16S32
• Recall Description: CERTAIN 2015 AND 2016 TRANSIT VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 3.2 L DIESEL ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE FUEL VOLUME CONTROL VALVE OR FUEL INJECTOR CLOGGING THAT COULD RESULT IN A NO START OR AN ENGINE STALL WHILE DRIVING WITHOUT WARNING OR THE ABILITY TO RESTART. FORD IS NOT AWARE OF ANY REPORTS OF ACCIDENT OR INJURY RELATED TO THIS CONDITION. 
• Risk to Safety: AN ENGINE STALL WHILE DRIVING, WITHOUT WARNING OR THE ABILITY TO RESTART CAN INCREASE THE RISK OF A CRASH. 
• Remedy Program: OWNERS WILL BE NOTIFIED BY MAIL AND INSTRUCTED TO TAKE THEIR VEHICLE TO A FORD OR LINCOLN DEALER TO HAVE THE FUEL SYSTEM INSPECTED FOR METALLIC CONTAMINATION. IF NO METALLIC CONTAMINATION IS PRESENT, DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL INJECTION PUMP AND ASSOCIATED PARTS FOLLOWING STANDARD WORKSHOP MANUAL PROCEDURES. IF METALLIC CONTAMINATION IS PRESENT, DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FUEL INJECTION PUMP, FUEL INJECTORS, FUEL FILTER, AND CLEAN AND FLUSH THE FUEL SYSTEM FOLLOWING THE DEALER BULLETIN TECHNICAL INSTRUCTIONS. THERE WILL BE NO CHARGE FOR THIS SERVICE. FORD PROVIDED THE GENERAL REIMBURSEMENT PLAN FOR THE COST OF REMEDIES PAID FOR BY VEHICLE OWNERS PRIOR TO NOTIFICATION OF A SAFETY RECALL IN FEBRUARY 2015. THE ENDING DATE FOR REIMBURSEMENT ELIGIBILITY IS NOVEMBER 30, 2016. FORD WILL FORWARD A COPY OF THE NOTIFICATION LETTERS TO DEALERS TO THE AGENCY WHEN AVAILABLE. 
• Status: 11 - RECALL INCOMPLETE
• Manufacturer Notes: TO CHECK FOR NON-SAFETY-RELATED PROGRAMS APPLICABLE TO YOUR VEHICLE, SEE HTTP://WWW.FORD.COM/ OR CALL YOUR FORD DEALER.

Petzl E+LITE Headlamp

I have 3 flashlights in the motorhome.   One a traditional Maglight,  a Fenix high power LED light and a small Petzl headlamp.

The headlamp is a Petzl E+LITE.   This is a very small light.  It uses two CR2032 button batteries and is just slightly larger than the batteries.   It is not the most powerful light only putting out  a maximum of 26 lumens, but that is plenty for task lighting. Task lighting is what I tend to use a headlamp for.

I have several flashlights.  I have been getting rid of the cheap ones since they never seem to work when I need them.  The Petzl is a good one I have replaced several of the cheap ones with.

I love the size and the weight.  It was designed for backpackers and mountain climbers.  Besides its size, there are several nice features about the Petzl E+LITE that made me buy one.

First is that it will produce either white light or red light.  The white light has an output of 5 lumens on low mode and 26 lumens on high power.  The red light is pretty bright, but is not specified in the manual.  You can also select a mode where it will flash either the white or the red light.  Petzl  says these modes are so you can be seen.  They are right.

Second is the E+LITE  has a retractable headband.  It is more of a headstring than a headband but it works and keeps the clutter down to a minimum.  In addition to putting this around my head, I have worn it on my arm and looped it to put it on the beagle's collar.   In the middle of the night with the flashing red light there is no excuse not to be seen.

The headstring is not something you would want to wear for hours on end, though you could.  But for the motorhome where you would need to to connect up utilities at night it would be fine.

The other thing that I liked about the light is the battery lifetime.  On high it is good for 50 hours and on low it should run for 70 hours.  I doubt I use it that much in a year.  It is designed to be stored.  The CR2032 batteries do not self destruct like alkaline batteries either.  That probably means that I will not have to change the batteries for years.

The manufactures web site for the light is here.   I purchased mine from Amazon.  It was around $30.00.  You can sometimes find them on sale for just a little over $20.00.

Can I Idle my Fuse

One of the main reasons in the South to run the generator on the Fuse is to have air conditioning.    Air Conditioning is a must as temperatures get into the 80s and above.  For those of us with pets, it is even more important if we leave them in the motorhome and go exploring.

The Fuse generator is powered by LP gas.  The Fuse only has a 10 gallon tank so this is a concern for many people.  Refilling the tank is not a problem if you are staying at campgrounds or in most areas, but in a few places getting LP is problematic.

So what about just cooling the Fuse with the dash air?  It is actually a larger A/C than the mach10 unit on the roof and can keep the entire vehicle cool with a little help stirring the air in the back.   To do this, the question is is it safe to idle the ford Transit 3.2l diesel engine for a period of time measured in hours.

The short answer is yes.

Now to the discussion:  I asked Ford about idling the engine for an extended period when it was set up like the Fuse.  The Fuse comes with the Motorhome package which has some features that helps with idling.  I asked three places and got 3 answers that were in the affirmative, but two of them were not very convincing.

The question I asked was this:

"I have a Winnebago Fuse motorhome that is built on a Ford Transit 350HD with the 3.2l Powerstroke diesel engine and Motorhome Prep package.   I would like to idle the engine for an extended period, somewhere between 1 hour and 8 hours with the air conditioning running.   Is this OK to do ?   If so, are there any special precautions I should take, different lubricants I should use, changes in the maintenance schedule, etc. or is the diesel Transit designed to do this as is?

The first answer was:

 I am summarizing: You might have to change the oil more often.  At 2500 miles, but it became obvious that they thought I had a Gas engine towards the end.

The second answer was:

"The information I was able to find in your owner manual recommends not idling over grass or other combustible material, as well as not idling for long periods of time for fuel consumption purposes. " 

The third answer was:

"... Ford found no specific restrictions regarding idle time.  They reported that there is a potential issue with the Diesel particulate filter,  where soot accumulation in the filter cannot easily be burned off at idle.  They stated that as long as the owner is able to drive the vehicle a sufficient distance at speed and load to regenerate the DPF after they get a cluster warning message,  then it should be fine.  They also caution about idling over grass or other potentially flamible materials."

The last answer I received from a Ford dealer was that if you were going to idle a Ford Transit for an extended period then the diesel engine was the one you wanted for this task.   It is being used by emergency service and utility vehicles for this exact purpose.

Regarding the oil and lubricants.  Ford said to follow the manual and the computer will let you know when it is time to change the oil.  It uses several different inputs to determine when the oil should be changed  with one of them being idle time.  Excessive idling will cause the oil to need to be changed more frequently but the change interval is not just dependent on that one factor.

This is the information from Ford.   There are several other things that should also be considered.

How do you secure your vehicle if you walk away and leave it running?   

Unattended idling is against the rules in many places.  In about 20% of the United States this will get you a ticket of up to $200.00 for your first offense.  It may void your Insurance if the vehicle is stolen while idling unattended.

Idling is against the law in some places

Some places have made idling for an extended period against the law for pollution purposes.  Most of these laws affect commercial vehicles but in some places it is for all vehicles. This is mostly in cities, but it is another factor to consider.  A list maintained by the US Dept. of Energy is located here: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/matrix?sort_by=reg


So what am I going to do?

This is just me.  If I am at a rest stop or at a place where the big rigs are idling then I am going to idle.  I will be with the vehicle so I feel good about it not disappearing.  Idling for a period of time at a rest stop should also not cause any real issues with the particulate filter since I will be back on the road shortly and giving the re-gen process time to work if necessary.

I know it will keep me cool for a nap or lunch since I have done it.  In 95 degree heat, in the full sun, the dash air will keep the interior of the Fuse cool.

As far as running it when the vehicle is not occupied by a human.  I am going to continue to run the generator.  That is what it is for and will avoid any issues with local authorities and idling laws.

2017 1/2 Exterior Color Change

The exterior color on the 2017 1/2 Winnebago Fuse changed to a new color scheme called "Magnetic".  Below are pictures of the 2017 and the 2017 1/2 Fuse from the respective Winnebago brochures.  

2017 Winnebago Fuse - From Winnebago Brochure

2017 1/2 Winnebago Fuse - From Winnebago Brochure

Here are other changes we are aware of on the 2017 1/2 Fuse.

How much can my Fuse tow?

A question has come up and I find it interesting since I do not know anything about the subject.  How much can a Fuse or any Ford Transit based motorhome tow?   This is even more interesting since the 2017 1/2 model Winnebago is upgrading the hitch from a 2000 lbs one to a 5000 lbs capacity one.

This was posted by Bob Bedell on the Travato Facebook the other day and I think it explains how to determine what you can tow:

From a post by Michael Russell in Travato Owners and Wannabees FB Group. Dated 2015
“This has always been a confusing topic trying to understand all of the specs quoted by the manufacturers and it took me a long time asking questions and reviewing documents to understand all of the acronyms GCWR, GVWR, OCCC, dry weight, hitch rating, etc?

One of the important things to remember is that just because you can walk back to the hitch and read the hitch rating on the tag of the hitch doesn't mean that the RV can tow that much weight. That is just how much weight the hitch has been certified to carry without breaking off the back of the RV. You have to consider the chassis weight carrying capacity (and how much it is loaded) and see which one is lower .... chassis or hitch.

Lets go through the numbers for the Travato. Total weight the Travato can Tow AND Carry is 11500 lbs (GCWR). To find out how much you can safely tow you need to subtract from the GCWR the total weight of the Travato loaded with everything in it. This includes the Travato, occupants, gear, gas, water, and tongue weight of the trailer. All of these items can't be more than the Pro-Master chassis is rated to carry which 9350 (GVWR). So when the Travato is completely loaded to the max it can carry GCWR- GVWR which is 11500-9350=2150 lbs. So if you have loaded up your Travato to its max you can only pull a trailer of 2150 lbs even though the hitch can handle 3500. If you can cut down on the weight you have loaded into the Travato you can increase the amount of trailer you can tow. But it is very hard (if not impossible) to get to the max hitch capacity of 3500 lbs because that would mean that you would have to keep the Travato and all of the contents below 11500-3500=8000 lbs. The Travato empty of everything weighs 7440 lbs which only leaves you with 560 lbs you can load. A couple of people (250 lbs), gas (150 lbs.), propane (36 lbs), and water (200 lbs), and tongue weight (350 lbs) and you are already over the capacity to tow a 3500 lbs trailer. Doing the math 11500-986-7440 (total above) = 3074 lbs. and this doesn't include any of the camping gear you need. In summary I think you can only expect to tow a trailer in the range of 2150 to 2800 lbs max. Hope this helps. “ 

It sounds like a pretty good explanation to me.  Lets translate this to a Transit based motorhome.  So for the 2017 Fuse 23A lets get the important numbers on the table:
  GCWR = 13500 (from Ford - 350HD with 3.2 l diesel and 3.73 transmission)
         Ford 2016 Transit Towing Guide
  GVWR = 10360 (From door sticker)
  OCCC  = 1529  (from door sticker)
  Front GAWR = 4130 (from door sticker)
  Rear GAWR = 7275 (from door sticker)

If we insert these numbers into this discussion we get 13500-10360=3140 lbs

With a Fuse you are not probably not loading it to the maximum weight so you might be able to add back in 2-300 pounds.  You would need to weigh the vehicle for sure. 

You also have to add back in the tongue weight of the trailer to how much you are carrying on the chassis.  How much is that?  For a toad (car being towed) it depends on your tow bar.  Probably under 50 pounds from what I read.  For a trailer, it is different, maybe up to 10% of the weight of the trailer and it is very dependent on the trailer.

So the quick general answer is 3100-3500lbs with the proper hitch .   2000 lbs on the 2017 since that is the hitch capacity.

A couple of good resources:
       Motorhome Magazine Dinghy Guides

       Ford 2016 Transit Towing Guide

Naples Kitchen Frozen Entrees

When I find something that is good and I can cook in the Fuse that is easy,  I will point it out.   One thing we found are some frozen entrees from Naples Kitchen.   They are available at Walmart and I verified on vacation it was not just a Florida thing.  We saw them as far away as Columbus, Ohio.  They are also available at various other stores including Costco.

At Walmart they are in with the Frozen TV dinners. We have had several of the chicken and beef dishes and they have all been good.  Our favorite so far has been the Hawaiian Style Chicken.   On a bed of rice it is great.   There is enough meat and sauce in the package for 2 people to have 2 meals when served on some rice.  The leftovers taste pretty good as well.  Price for the larger containers is $12.98.

Cooking it is easy.  It even comes with a plastic serving container.  You poke some holes in the bag  that it comes in and into the microwave it goes.  I believe the large container for the Hawaiian Chicken says 7 minutes.   In the microwave at home it  takes about double the amount of time indicated in the instructions.  In the Fuse microwave it was definitely double what the cooking instructions said.